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Q&A With Bob Levey
Washington Post Columnist
Tuesday, Feb. 27, 2001; Noon EST

"Levey Live" appears Tuesdays at noon EST. Your host is Washington Post columnist Bob Levey. This hour is your chance to talk directly to key Washington Post reporters and editors, local officials and people in the news.

Bob’s guest today is Bonnie Angelo, author of the new book “First Mothers: The Women Who Shaped the Presidents.”

Bonnie Angelo

“First Mothers” shares the stories of remarkable mothers who played large roles in developing the characters of the modern American presidents.

The book covers a wide range of personalities from formidably aristocratic Sara Delano Roosevelt to diehard Democrat Martha Truman, from zealous pacifist Ida Eisenhower to family matriarch Rose Kennedy, nurturing Rebekah Baines Johnson, stoic Hannah Milhous Nixon, and courageous Dorothy Ford. Also included are the lives of outspoken Peace Corps mother Lillian Carter, would-be actress Nelle Reagan, champion athlete Dorothy Bush, and gambling, hard-living Virginia Kelley Clinton.

During more than twenty-five years with Time magazine, Bonnie Angelo has reported on the White House and the presidential families during eight administrations. As a Washington correspondent and bureau chief in London and New York, she has covered newsmakers and major events in all fifty states and around the world. She lives in Bethesda, Maryland and New York City.

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Bob Levey: Good afternoon, Bonnie, and thanks for joining us. Your book strongly suggests that the mothers of presidents had strong fathers themselves. Were there any cases where that was particularly true?

Bonnie Angelo: In every case of these mothers, there was a special bond between this particular daughter and her father. Rebekah Baines Johnson summed it up when she said, "My father gave the timid child self confidence. " And that's just what they did: they made these girl feels that they could go beyond the constraints placed on 19th century women to do more, to be more. The fathers made the girls more independent minded, more self assured. And I am convinced that these traits were then passed directly to the son who would become president. Father to daughter to son.

Vienna: Some presidents came from wealthy, distinguished families: the Bushes, the Roosevelts, JFK. Others came from much modest backgrounds: Clinton, Reagan, Nixon. Has the role of presidential mothers differed by class?

Bonnie Angelo: These mothers came from the entire spectrum of social and economic status--and it made no difference. As the question notes, three were wealthy, from prestigious families, the others ranged from struggling middle class to churchmouse poor. Nelle Reagan, for example--the Reagans had ups and downs in their life. Jack Reagan, the father, was a shoe salesman, and , sadly, an alcoholic, and when he lost jobs, things were tough. There was a time when Nelle would put a dime in her older son's--Neil's-- hand and send him off to the butcher with instructions, "Tell him you want a soupbone and some liver for the cat." Well, the butcher probably knew that the cat was as imaginary as Alice in Wonderland's cheshire, but he nicely cut a good piece of liver--and that was what the Reagan family of four lived on for the next week. We simply don't know that kind of poverty now--and this was a family that considered itself middle class.And the middle class families had their setbacks during times of depression, recession and "panics"--the Trumans lost their farmland, the Fords lost their home when his successful paint business suffered during the years when no one had money enough to paint their houses. In a difficult period for the Eisenhowers, Ida would send her son Dwight--she never called him "Ike"--to school wearing her cast-off high button shoes. Imagine the embarrassment for a proud 10-year-old!

Bob Levey: The world can't seem to get enough of the Kennedy legend. Was Rose the architect of much of it, or did she live in the background? After all, she never played touch football or counted delegates in a trailer parked outside a hall.

Bonnie Angelo: Rose Kennedy was the strongest influence in her chidren's lives--no matter that Joe Kennedy Sr. was such a powerful tycoon. John F. Kennedy told Time Magazine, when it was preparing the Man of the Year cover following his election, "Everybody talks about my father. But the credit should go to my mother. She is the one who stirred our interest in history. She would take us to historic sites like Plymouth Rock and tell us about it--then we had to answer her questions to make sure we had been paying attention. She implanted the understanding that public service is a noble calling." Eunice Kennedy Shriver told me that her mother was "a born teacher." ANd that's what she did--she taught her nine children, around the dinner table, and wherever she took them.
Rose Kennedy was the foremost example of a trait that these mothers shared: resilience in the face of hard time, of abusivce and alcoholic husband, and the unbearable tragedy of the death of children. Rose lost not just the two we all suffered with her, Jack and Bobby, but her firstborn, Joe Jr., who was lost flying adangerous mission over the English channel in World War II, and her golden daughter Kathleen was also killed in an air crash just after the war. And yet she never lost her faith or her ability to meet any challenge. Think also about Hannah Nixon, who lost two sons to tuberculosis, one when he was only seven, the other at 22, after she had nursed him for almost seven years.

Bob Levey: I realize you're not a psychologist, but Bill Clinton obviously had a ravenous appetite for women. Did his mother know about this? Ever comment about this?

Bonnie Angelo: Virginia Clinton Kelley certainly knew about some of his adventures with women. She tossed it off lightly, saying that he was so attractive that, of course, the ladies were drawn to him.She was surprised when he first brought Hillary home to visit them in Hot Springs. The way she told it she was baffled by this girl who wore heavy glasses, obviously never bothered to have her hair done and--this was paramount to Virginia--WORE NO MAKEUP! And Hillary was equally astonished at this mother who, as Virginia told it, was "mahogany brown, with a skunk stripe in her hair, and all those eyelashes! But the two of them would become great friends--"It was a learning experience," she said.I feel certain that Virginia, who was always a working mother (a nurse anesthetist),would have been pleased at Hillary's election as senator.

Nova: I'm curious about the relationships these mothers had with their other children. Why was Jimmy Carter President and Billy... well, Billy? What about the Presidents' sisters? Was the President invariably a favorite child?

Bonnie Angelo: The younger brothers were proof--to me--that there was something special between the mother and the son who would become president. BIlly Carter, Sam Houston Johnson, Don Nixon and most of all, Roger Clinton, conducted themselves in a way that embarrassed their brothers. One story I liked about Billy was when he launched Billy Beer--clearly trading on his brother's position. Some ladies in Plains, the Carters' home town, insisted that the mother,"Miss LIllian" Carter shouldn't attend the beer launch. To which she said, saucily, "Why not? I went to Jimmy's inauguration, didn't I"
The presidents' sisters (and there were remarkably few sisters in this group)caused no problems. I think with the younger brothers it was a clear case of sibling rivalry.
The mothers would never acknowledge that they had a favorite child--but when one son shines and achieves so brilliantly, there had to be a greater feeling of pride on the part of the mother. His success was her success.

Arlington VA: Have there been any presidents who have had poor relationships with their mothers? Any who saw little of them during their adulthood?

Bonnie Angelo: Yes, there are presidents who didn't get along well at all with their mothers. Look at Mount Rushmore--two out of the four presidents on that great monument did not like their mothers. The two? George Washington and Thomas Jefferson--two of our national icons. In the early 19th century, moving to Washington was a tremendous separation, and some of those presidents saw little of their mothers. But I wrote only about the modern presidents--FDR to Clinton-- because the modern presidency really began then, when they had to go out and actively seek the office, which meant they had to have that self-assurance the mothers implanted in them.That is crucial to anyone running for president these days.

Bob Levey: How about presidential fathers? Didn't Joe Kennedy have a huge influence on JFK? Didn't George Herbert Walker Bush have a huge influence on Dubya?

Bonnie Angelo: Most of the fathers were disappointments to these mothers--failures or feckless or abusive. To compensate, the mothers poured themselves into these sons--he would be her fulfillment and her monument.
Yes, Joe Kennedy, particularly, had great influence, but it was his first son, his namesake, who was the apple of his eye. Joe Jr. was the Kennedy he expected to see in the White House. Jack, a sickly youngster and quite different from Joe, was closer to his mother. And, yes, the senior Bush had an influence, but the new First Lady, Laura, says her husband is much more like his mother: "They are both feisty; they both are funny." And they share a much more outgoing personality than father and son. Says George W: "I got my looks from my father and my mouth from my mother."

Bob Levey: On the day he left office, in disgrace, Nixon evoked the memory of his mother. Was this a genuine moment of anguish by a son who had let his Mommy down? Or was this the ever-calculating Nixon, embarked already on his political rehabilitation?

Bonnie Angelo: Nixon was in such a turbulent emotional state that day that it is inconceivable that he was already trying to polish his image. In the midst of his struggle with his resignation speech he said, "No one will ever write a book about my mother, but my mother wa a saint." At that worst moment of his entire life, it was his mother who was on his mind. His wife Pat,fighting against tears, was standing at his side--and he never mentioned her name. It was a painful moment to witness.

Laurel: Sara Roosevelt lived into her son's presidency. Considering his level of popularity with people of his class background, did she ever find his politics distasteful or complain that it had negative impact on her friends?

Bonnie Angelo: When FDR first began thinking about going into politics, Sara frowned at the idea-- politics, to her, was beneath the Roosevelts and the Delanos. But when he persisted, she wanted him to win--she gave him generous contributions and even worked in his campaign office. And then she LOVED to visit the White House and stay in the Queen's suite.

Bob Levey: Will Barbara Bush overshadow Laura Bush? After all, Laura doesn't seem to relish the limelight in the slightest.....

Bonnie Angelo: I think Barbara will take great care not to overshadow Laura. And watching Laura in these early days, I think she will be a popular first lady. As a librarian, her dedication to reading and literacy is not just an echo of her mother-in-law's interest, but it has been her own for many years. And her warm smile will take her a long way.

Bob Levey: Dish a little about the relationships (if any) that presidential mothers had with First Ladies. Obviously, no love was lost between Virginia Kelley and Hillary Rodham Clinton. But what about Rose and Jackie, Ida and Mamie Eisenhower?

Bonnie Angelo: The relationship between mother-in-law and her son's new wife is always fragile. With Sara and Eleanor Roosevelt, there was never a good relationship. With others, like Lady Bird Johson and Rebekah Baines Johnson,a relationship that could have been tense quickly became a deep friendship that lasted throughout their lives together. Rose and Jackie had a perhaps cool, but always courteous relationship--and Jackie once said of Rose,who was so strong, "I looked at her and said, "What a thoroughbred!" Ida and Mamie's relationship paired two extremes--Ida was the simple,cheerful deeply fundamentalist mother of six sons, who brought them up to do housework and cook as well as tend the garden: Mamie was the fun-loving butterfly daughter of affluent parents who never learned to sew or cook--but both of them were devoted to Ike.

Bob Levey: Thanks very much, author Bonnie Angelo. Be sure to join us a week from today when the guest on "Levey Live" will be Elaina Newport. She describes herself as "producer and Alpha female" for the satirical musical troupe, The Capitol Steps. It should be a hoot. The hooting starts at noon Eastern time on March 6.

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