Moderator: Welcome to Viewpoint with our guest, Kaleem Caire. Kaleem, we're glad to have you with us today, and let's get started.

Falls Church, Va.: How do you answer the concern that vouchers -- both public and private -- drain funds from public school districts? Property taxes in Milwaukee have gone up dramatically and many programs have had to undergo cuts -- hardly school improvement.

Kaleem Caire: Greetings everyone. I am glad to be here. Getting right tot the discussion, Milwaukee's Parental Choice Program is a program that is partly funded by the state and local property taxes. What we have been able to show people is that the Milwaukee Program actually saves the state money because the cost of educating children in private schools that recieve a voucher is much less than in public schools. I will get to this again later in the discussion for the sake of time.

Washington, D.C.: You say that it’s a matter of choice, but don’t the schools have most of the power to do the choosing? They can pick and choose and discriminate. No wonder private schools want vouchers; it boosts the number of folks they can discriminate against. How can you say vouchers help poor and minority students if these schools can discriminate?

Kaleem Caire: No. Again, using Milwaukee's Parental Choice Program once again as an example, students are admitted to the program through an open lottery. State law also requires that schools not discriminate on the basis of disability or race/ethnicity. This system of laws and regulations prevent "choice" schools from picking and choosing students. And statistical reports indicate that their are almost an equal percentage of Black and Latino students participating in the choice program in Milwaukee as their are enrolled in the Milwaukee Public Schools.

Fredericksburg, Va.: We always focus on the children "saved" from failing schools through choice and/or vouchers. What happens to the children, often the daughters and sons of the most disfunctional families, left behind? Does anyone care?

Kaleem Caire: We care, that is why we formed this organization. We believe it is important for all parents to have the opportunity to choose a learning environment that is best for their children. In fact, we believe it is their right and their responsibility to do so. In regards to what happens to the children that are left behind...we cannot assume that every school a parent chooses is going to work for their child. So we have to be careful when we make the "left behind" statement because it makes it seem as though children are automatically going to a better school because it is private. Our organization not only supports children attending private school, but also important public school reforms as well for this very reason.

Detroit, Mich.: In Detroit last November, a school choice voucher proposal was turned down by Detroit voters, however polls indicate that parents overwhelmingly support school choice. Many voters feel that "government dollars should be spent on public projects, and that the public shouldn't get involved." What is BAEO doing to help change this view of school choice, particularly in impoverished urban areas like Detroit, and what are BAEO's efforts in Detroit specifically, if any?

Kaleem Caire: We are not necessarily trying to change people's views. What we are trying to do is educate parents and the general public about the value of parents having an opportunity to choose a learning environment that best suits their children's educational needs. To do this, we have developed chapters in 20 cities in 16 states throughout the U.S. These chapters are charged with accomplishing our goals of educating parents and expanding quality educational options for Black children. And we do have a Chapter being developed in Detroit!

Springfield, Va.: Mr. Caire,
It is clear, at least from a public policy perspective, that parental choice is designed primarily to aid minority families, whose children are trapped in failing schools. However, supporters of school choice continue to lose the war of public perception. The rhetoric of teachers' unions and other groups that oppose choice has been incredibly successful in undermining these efforts. What can be done to help promote choice programs and garner public support?

Kaleem Caire: Again, we have to educate people about the importance of parents being in charge of their children's education and having immediate access to quality learning environments. We don't spend a great deal of time worrying about what Teacher's Unions are doing. Their job is to represent teachers. Our mission is to represent our children and their parents. We have two different agendas and we are primarily concerned about meeting the needs of our constituents.

Milwaukee, Wis.: Why do you think public schools fight so hard to abolish school choice and do you think that public schools are incapable of educating and offering our children the same oppurtunities a charter school could?

Kaleem Caire: I don't see a lot of "public schools" fighting to abolish school choice. What we have learned in places like Milwaukee is that nearly half of all public school educators send their children to private schools. So it is not necessarily a fight by those in the system to prevent parents from having a choice. So their is support for choice in the system. As far as public schools offering children the same opportunities as charter and private schools...of course, their are a number of excellent public schools in across this country. It just so happens that Black Children don't tend to be in them in large numbers.

Portland, Ore.: How would you describe the response you're getting to the advertisements in Washington, D.C.? Has it helped you to identify other parents/citizens who support school choice?

Kaleem Caire: The response has been overwhelming. We have received well over 2,500 phone calls, emails and even faxes from parents about our ad campaign. Most of the calls have come from parents seeking a "voucher" or a scholarship for their child to attend a private school. And many of these parents have asked to get involved with BAEO.

Arlington, Va.: Your commericials in support of education vouchers are quite impressive. They were no doubt expensive, given their high quality and frequent airtime. Could you tell us who helped fund this ad campaign?

Kaleem Caire: We have received donations from a number of sources. You can go to our website to see the list of contributors to the ad campaign.

Richmond, Va.: Isn't a de facto school choice program already in effect with financially-able familes moving to "good school districts" while the rest are stuck in school systems that continue to fail? We will move our family to a county school district when our kids are school age, but there is currently no option for those who for economic reasons cannot flee the city of Richmond for "good schools" in a surrounding county.

Kaleem Caire: I would argue YES. As many of you know, our theme has been "School Choice is Widespread, Unless you are Poor." Those of us with money can choose to live in a community that has a good public school. We happen to believe that the economic status of a child's parents should not determine whether or not that child will receive a quality education. We have lost too many of our children already and we cannot afford to lose anymore. Give Parents a Choice, Give Children a Chance. You will hear that from us over and over again until people start to really get it!!

Washington, D.C.: I agree with you. Choice is so important.
I had my son in Lafayette Elementary School. It is one of the finest in D.C. However, they could not focus on his needs. He is ADHD. They offered absolutely no help. I pulled him out at put him in a Catholic school. They were willing to work with him and he did well. He is now a freshman at St. John's. He is very happy and I am, too. I strongly support the concept of choice. I don't see how a tax credit can help poor parents meet the ever increasing cost of private education. I hope you can explain.

Kaleem Caire: To date, we have not seen many tax credit proposals that have shown they provide an equal benefit to low-income parents. In order to take a "credit," you have to make a certain amount of income each year. We think tax credits are a good idea for all parents, but we will hesitate to support any proposal that does not support low-income families and their children. In some cases, we may have to fight them. Look very careful at these proposals and work with those who draft them so that they are truly inclusive of all families.

Ann Arbor, Mich.: How are Milwaukee's public schools faring now that some of their students have opted out with vouchers?

Kaleem Caire: According to Milwaukee's Superintendent and several Board members, MPS has made a great deal of improvements as a result of the voucher program. They have ended seniority transfer rights at a number of their schools, thus allowing their principals to hire good educators and not just those with a few more years in the system. MPS school principals and staff have started going out in the community to educate parents why their children should come to their schools instead of attending a local private or charter school and MPS has also been able to successfully lower class size in many of its schools because of the 15,000 children that are in choice and charter schools. Various researchers, including Carolyn Hoxby of Harvard University, have also come out lately and identified how Milwaukee school voucher program has helped improve the public schools. We are pleased with the improvements, but there is much more to be done.

Alexandria, Va.: I am disturbed by your radio commercials where it is stated that no one cares about minority children. I believe that is in the commercial with the gentleman with the daughter. My wife has chosen to stay and teach in a school that is predominatley minority (90-95%) because she feels that she is needed most there. Statements like those in your commercials are a slap in her and all of her co-workers face that feel the same way. There must be a better way to get your point across without being so inflamatory with the use of false statements.

Kaleem Caire: I don't recall us making this claim in any of our ads, television, radio or print. You must be thinking of another organization because this did not come from BAEO.

Lake Elsinore, Calif.: You mentioned that your goal is to educate parents about their children's education. What happens to the kids whose parents don't get involved with their education? Won't they just get left behind with a voucher system? Unfortunately there are parents out there who don't put in much time with their children.

Kaleem Caire: I find this question interesting. How about we ask this same question about traditional public schools? What you will find is that more than 50 percent of Black children fail to complete a high school diploma. Some children, we don't even know where they are. We should start asking who is being left behind in the current system. We are losing thousands nationwide each year, and this phenomena affects children of color and white children alike. And we could open the doors of voucher programs to more students if more policy makers and persons like yourself supported choice in the form of school vouchers.

New York, N.Y.: The hopeful topic implies there are responsible parents who recognize the promise of education for their children. But the schools can't do it all. A change in the culture that devalues education is needed. Choosing your children's school is a start, but only that. Comment?

Kaleem Caire: We agree. There are many other issues that need to be attended to when we talk about the education of our children. But we think choice is a necessary component of any school reform plan. It empowers parents and encourages public schools to improve.

Washington, D.C.: How can siphoning money from the public schools help students in the long run? Money is taken away from public schools and given to the private schools in the form of vouchers, yet only some students (based on the lottery system you mentioned above) will benefit. Those still in the public schools are then left with fewer resources, making what was apparently an under-performing school try to perform better with less funds. How do you reconcile this?

Kaleem Caire: Milwaukee has had a high failure rate among its students for more than 20 years. Each year, more than 1,000 students drop out of school. This cost the school system $millions of dollars each year. There are also a multitude of issues in Milwaukee that have contributed to funding woes. MPS itself has said that the choice program is not a major reason for its financial struggles. You should check with MPS yourself to get the details. The choice program cost tax payers less than $50 million last year. MPS's annual budget is more than $900 million dollars...and they only contribute a little more than 1/3 of the total cost of the Voucher Program.

Washington, D.C.: Nationwide, what has been the overall impact of school choice? Is there data showing student academic improvement?

Kaleem Caire: There is research that has shown improvements in students academic achievement (for those participating in choice programs). Visit our website at www.schoolchoiceinfo.org for more information access to this research.

Washington, D.C.: Do you believe in the total privatization of public education in areas with failing schools, or do you see vouchers as a means of pressuring the public school system to perform better?

Kaleem Caire: No. We believe in empowering parents with educational choices and getting children into great schools, whether they are public, public charter, private or home schools. It's about what our children need, not what we want!

Woodbridge, Va.: Hello Mr. Caire: I assume that most black politicians are opposed to school choice and vouchers. But don't the polls show that most low-income black parents support vouchers? Why the disconnect? Are the politicians in bed with the teachers' unions?

Kaleem Caire: I would say that Black politicians are "in bed" with politicians. Seperate polls have shown that nearly 60 percent or more of African Americans support school vouchers. I believe Black leadership needs to be sufficiently educated about the issues related to school choice. I also recognize that Black elected officials tend to rely heavily on the labor vote in order to win popular elections. In addition, we cannot ignore history when vouchers were proposed in by whites in the South back in the 1950's and 60's as a means to avoid having to send their children to school with Black children as a result of desegregation. There are many wounds to heal, many hearts to reach and many minds to educate. It will take time, but we are finding the challenge to be less difficult than what we had first imagined.

St. Louis, Mo.: How will the organization support the choice for independent private school education for African-American youth? In particular, quality schools that are committed to African-American education?
There are a growing number of parents selecting this option and making the commitment to support such institutions.
Our school has scholarships designated for bright students whose families are unable to afford tuition. Will private education be included in the support philosophy or mission of the organization? There are some private African-American schools that are providing an alternative for parents as well.

Kaleem Caire: We are working on defining our agenda on these issues right now and plan to have a very focused strategy to begininng addressing the questions you raised by the end of 2001. However, each of our local chapters is charges with addressing issues that are important to the people of their communities. Our New York chapter is just one of the chapters that is working on educating parents about independent private schools and helping them to gain access to them. Dr. Gail Foster, who is one of our Board members involved with the New York chapters in one of the highly respected champions of independent education for black children in the country.

Manhattan, N.Y.: Considering the poor track record of school vouchers in this country -- at the ballot box, in state legislatures, in the court system, in public opinion polls -- do you think it is possible that you and BAEO are part of a minority that is simply anti-public school?

Kaleem Caire: No. Politics is like any another battle, you win some and you lose some. Going back in history, it took Charles Hamilton Houston, the orchestrator of Brown vs. Board of Education, more than 30 years to finally win a Supreme Court victory that ended segregation in education and public accommodations. We believe this struggle will take just as long. And we are not anti-public school. Many within our organization are employees of public schools and have children that attend public schools. My three children attended public schools and will do so when we move to Maryland next month. It is not about us against public schools, it is about us working to develop the lives of our children the best way we possible can, and truly...by any LEGAL means necessary!

Chicago, Ill.: Please address how parental school choice may provide solutions to reduce the high dropout rate of African American males from high school?

Kaleem Caire: We have ideas about how this can be done but their is no significant evidence available yet that indicates that "parent school choice" or voucher programs do this, particularly for low-income children. School choice programs are little more than 10 years old in this country. We hope to support studies in the near future that will start to collect this data. Given what we know about schools in Milwaukee, we expect the results would be very favorable.

Des Moines, Iowa: Given that there are no mandatory reporting requirements for schools participating in Milwaukee's voucher program, how can parents get accurate information BEFORE they enroll in a voucher school?

Kaleem Caire: There are number of organizations, school fairs, websites, forums, etc. in cities and states that have voucher programs that provide parents with this type of information. On August 10th, we plan to launch our new www.baeo.org website, which will provide you with access to this type of information. I hope you will visit it.

Washington, D.C.: Why, since teachers are fighting against school choice, do so many of those same teachers' children go to private schools? When I took my child out of public school and the teacher started telling me how very good the school was, I asked, "What school does your child attend?" It was a private one. If the public schools are so good, why do the teachers' children not attend?

Kaleem Caire: These teachers are simply looking out for their child's best interests. We say, more power to them and Bravo. Would you send your child to a school you taught in simply because you taught there...especially if know first hand that the school will not serve your child well. We stopped making this argument because it is unfair to public school educators (regardless if they practice hypcrocy or not) and is not a major issue for us.

Tampa, Fla.: How do you educate parents on the best use of public school choice plans such as the ones being used here in Florida and Seattle, Boston, etc.? What can be done to to help parents use these systems to their best advantage?

Kaleem Caire: A great deal of information needs to be shared. We need to host forums, meeting in church basements, go door-to-door, host community outings and rountables for parents. There are number of ways we can engage parents. I find that a lot can be accomplished if we only decide to stop talking and simply writing our agendas and strategies in books somewhere, and BUY A COUPLE PAIRS OF TENNIS SHOES AND HIT THE PAVEMENT AND START TALKING WITH PARENTS DIRECTLY. This is why I admire my good brother Cory Booker, a councilman in Newark, New Jersey. He and many others out there are doing this very same thing every day. I hope you bought a new pair of shoes. Regardless of where you stand on the issues, we need you to be present and visible.

Portland, Ore.: Since "choice" schools only survive if they offer a quality product, won't schools tend to improve their quality and cater to families in an attempt to attract them to attend? This seems like it should be a good thing for all parents, students and teachers. Why the resistance to such a common-sense approach that works elsewhere in our country?

Kaleem Caire: Resistance comes from both fear and ignorance. What I find interesting about companies like Edison Schools, Mosaica, Beacon and other educational management companies is that if they do not keep parents in their schools and satisfied, then they lose both money and schools. And these companies have had both success and challenges in accomplishing this aim. I think what happended to Edison not receiving a contract to manage schools in New York earlier this year is a prime example of how a community can hold one of these companies in check when these companies do not adequately involve parents and other members of community in decision making, and demonstrate how they plan to meet the needs of the communities children.

Washington, D.C.: I realize that you work for a black organization, but why do you think you don't see more adds for school choice that focus on white, Latino, or Asian students? It seems to me that the people who are for school choice are people with less economic resources, and these people can be of any race.

Kaleem Caire: This is a good question. As an organization, we have struggled to address this issue. None of us believe that Black children should be the only ones benefitting from such programs, but we do understand that far too many Black children are failing educationally, and there are too many beautiful smiles and young talented minds we are losting as a result. So we made a concious effort to stand up for our children, but do so in ways were other children will benefit as well. That is why we focus on low-income families, but this status applies to many more children than just those who identify themselves African American. I should also add that several of our chapters have a diverse group of individuals working together for the benefit of the youth in our local communities.

Chattanooga, Tenn.: Since parental choice is designed to provide better educational opportunities for those children who are the victims of "failing schools," is there a plan to guide parents in choosing the best educational setting for their children? Many parents do not have the scheme to make that decision and therefore the children would move from one failing school to another.

Kaleem Caire: Yes. Visit www.parentsincharge.org, www.edreform.com, the children's scholarship fund and children's first america (which can be accessed via our www.schoolchoiceinfo.org website). They each have guides for parents. We hope to produce a primer in the near future as well. There are host of resources out their to do this. Just check bookstores, libraries and word of mouth is often one of the best tool as well.

Tulsa, Okla.: Most public school educators take the position that they need more funding per student and smaller class sizes. How would voucher programs affect public schools in those two areas?

Kaleem Caire: What Milwaukee has found is that they have been able to lower class size and save $ from busing and building renovations as a result of children attending the choice program and and charter schools in Milwaukee. If the 15,000 students attending "choice" and charter schools went back into MPS, the school district recently stated that they would have to find an additional $140 million and abondon their class size reduction plan and neighborhood schools plan.

Kaleem Caire: That was the final question that I have time for today. I am sorry I did not have time to get to all of your questions. We plan to sponsor two (2) additional discussions in the near future here at www.washingtonpost.com. I hope you will join us then and send me an email to me at Kaleemc@aol.com if you'd like to get involved with BAEO. Again, please visit www.schoolchoiceinfo.org for additional information on school choice and visit our new www.baeo.org after August 10, 2001. Peace, God Bless and the struggle continues...but victory is within our sight!

Moderator: Our thanks to Kaleem Caire, BAEO and all who participated.