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The Hidden Hitler
With Lothar Machtan
Author
Wednesday, Oct. 17, 2001; Noon EDT

In "The Hidden Hitler," German historian Lothar Machtan, Ph.D. delves into the personal and private life of Adolf Hitler. He presents extensive evidence that Hitler was a homosexual and that his fear of his sexual identity being exposed shaped several of his political decisions and key historical events during the Nazi era.

Lothar Machtan, Ph.D., author professor and social scientist, was online Wednesday, Oct. 17 at Noon EDT to discuss the personal life of Adolf Hitler. The book will be published in over 15 countries.

For 23 years, Machtan has researched German history, politics and socioeconomic. He currently is an associate professor at Bremen University in Germany. His internationally published books, reviews and essays include "Bismarck's Death and Germany's Tears: Report of a Tragedy" and "Courage to Have Morals: From the Private Correspondence of Social Reformer Theodor Lohman." He has been featured in newspapers and magazines such as Der Speigel, radio broadcasts, international conferences and symposiums. He has also been involved in German feature films such as "Varzin - Warcino - An Uncomfortable Legacy." Macthan has appeared on The Today Show (NBC) and The Early Show (CBS).

The transcript follows.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

washingtonpost.com: Why did you decide to write this book? How did you find the resources to write about Hitler's private life? Was it difficult?

Lothar Machtan, Ph.D.: Because no one had done it before. I think that Hitler's private life merits more than a sensational interest because it might explain something about his career.

Some sources I came across by accident but most of them I found by reading all the important biographical books and articles about Hitler again. And the greatest difficulty was making the sources "speak." That meant a lot of hard work evaluating the reliability of the sources.

Sunnyvale, Calif.: Did you find evidence of a sexual relationship between Hitler and Ernst Roehm? Did you find new evidence of the scope and history of the "Final Solution" as it was applied to the gay community (pink triangles)?

Lothar Machtan, Ph.D.: There were some contemporaries who say that there was a relationship, but there has been no contestable proof of that. In my eyes, they were two different types of homosexuals. But anyway, they were very close friends.

The book is not meant to explore the issues of the pink triangles. But, there is a lot of research on this topic going on right now.

Alexandria, Va.: I've read that Hitler had only one testicle as the result of contracting syphillis from a Jewish Viennese prostitute. Is this true?

Lothar Machtan, Ph.D.: This has never been anything but a rumor. We have no reliable sources about that. To know for sure is not important.

Arlington, Va.: Dr. Machtan,

I preface my comments by admitting that I have not read your work, thus do not know the extent of your claims.

You are probably aware that there is a theory among historians that the "cause" of the terror in the Soviet Union was Stalin's desire to eradicate all those who had direct knowledge of his collaboration with the tsarist police, a process that trundled out of control in the hands of the state bureaucracy. Skeptics point out that if this is true, one needs to show that, but not for this factor, Stalin would have been a fundamentally different type of leader, and the nature of the Soviet state would have been of a different cast.

So I would ask, are you arguing that Hitler would have been a fundamentally different type of leader, and that the nature of the Nazi state would have been of a different cast, but not for Hitler's confusing sexual identity?

Lothar Machtan, Ph.D.: Hitler would have been a different kind of leader, but maybe he would never have gained the leadership because his homosexual relations with certain men helped him a lot at the start of his career. Without this help, he might have failed to become a politician.

Somewhere, USA: What is the proof that he was gay? Why haven't the Germans spoke about this?

Lothar Machtan, Ph.D.: There is a lot of evidence like diaries, letters, and files, but the strongest evidence comes from two sources that have never been analyzed before. And they are the so-called Mend protocol, some kind of testimony of a former war comrade of Hitler, and the memoirs of Eugen Dollman, who was a very influential collaborator of Himmler and in personal touch with Hitler, as an interpreter.

Some scholars tend to focus only on Hitler's public life because they believe that he did not have a private life of any significance. So they missed something crucial and didn't go into the relevant sources.

Virginia: Is your book pro-Hilter or anti-Hitler? And what is your opinion of revisionist Irwing's works?

Lothar Machtan, Ph.D.: It is not apologia of Hitler's crimes in any way. My goal is to figure out how his personal life influenced his political career and even some of his decisions.

Bowie: Did he actually have a sex life, or was he celibate? If the former, why hasn't history heard from his lovers?

Lothar Machtan, Ph.D.: We only know about his sex life up to the mid-30s, before he became a dictator. But we have to take into account that he could hide everything much better when he was in the posession of this mighty power. There should be more research about this. My book is foremost focusing on the years 1907-1935.

Some of his lovers were intimidated to stay quiet. Some were even bribed, and some remained loyal to Hitler even after the war. I go into detail about this in the book.

Sterling, Va.: How could you belive Hitler was a homosexual if he persecuted homosexuals as well as other groups (Jews, for example)? I think homosexuals in general are more tolerant of other people's faiths, sexual orientation, and perspectives. Hitler sure wasn't.

Lothar Machtan, Ph.D.: First of all, Hitler was not the driving force of the persecution of homosexuals. He himself never publicly commented on questions involving homosexuality. The driving force was Himmler and his SS. On the other hand, the dictator did have a very personal interest in bringing the homosexual milieu under police control and clipping its wings. Why? Because he sensed that it posed a constant threat of denunciation and blackmail to himself and certain members of his immediate circle. So it was part of his egomaniac attempts to preserve his power.

Anyway, the fact that homosexuals were persecuted and even killed is inarguable.

Arlington: As I'm sure you are aware, many of us in the gay community are pretty wary of your conclusions. I can just hear Jerry Flawell and Pat Robertson now. Do you worry that your book might be exploited by those conservatives who like to repress and oppress gay people?

Lothar Machtan, Ph.D.: The first thing I want people to understand is that I'm not blaming the attrocities of Hitler on his homosexuality. The gay community of today does not share anything with the homosexual milieu that shaped Hitler. Those people were intolerant and even in a certain way homophobic. So Hitler is not at all some kind of ancestor of the gay society of today.

There is a clever saying from Klaus Mann, the son of Thomas Mann: "That sharing homosexual tendencies with a criminal, does not mean at all to become a criminal oneself." My book is not about homosexuality as such, but about the social and mental history of a certain type of homosexual of the past. This historical dimension is very important to be aware of.

I certainly hope that the intent of my book does not get distorted by the Jerry Falwells and Pat Robertsons because there is nothing in the book that could be interpreted as homophobic. I'm doing interviews with gay media who I know will get the facts out correctly.

Arlington, Va.: Did Himmler, Goering, Goebbels and the rest of the inner nazi "thugocracy" know?

Lothar Machtan, Ph.D.: Yes I think they did, but especially Goebbels and Goering kept quiet about it because they were vulnerable themselves. Himmler seems to be the only one who tried to put pressure on Hitler in this concern in 1943 when the war seemed to be lost for Germany. But there has to be more research in this area.

Washington, D.C.: So why did Hitler have Ernst Rohm killed? Lover's quarrel?

Lothar Machtan, Ph.D.: Rohm was the one who knew all about Hitler and especially about the beginning of his career. So in his struggle for power, he was always reflecting on that knowledge. And in 1933 he was quite sucessful. He became the most powerful Nazi besides Hitler. So to establish his absolute dictatorship, he made it necessary for Hitler to get rid of him. So without having done this, Hitler would have always been insecure.

Washington, D.C.: What has the response from the gay community been?

Lothar Machtan, Ph.D.: Certainly the information the information is shocking to the gay community but I make clear in my book that there is no relationship between the homosexuality of Hitler and the homosexuality of today's gay community. I've been doing interviews with the gay media as well as general media. I have not always been pleased with how some of the stories in the general media have distorted or oversimplified the facts in my book.

Alexandria, Va.: Don't you find it a little weird that none of the other scholars on the subject (John Toland, William Shirer, et al) have never touched on this topic? And how do you explain Hitler's affair with his neice? And was Eva Braun just willing window dressing? It all seems quite unbelievable.

Lothar Machtan, Ph.D.: Of course women like Geli Raubal and Eva Braun played an important role in Hitler's life, but what my research really shows is those relationships were not emotional, indeed not sexual, but rather for the sake of appearances. Hitler wanted to show that he was not a man without a woman. And at last he needed the marriage of Eva Braun for his legacy.

New York: Hello, professor. Were there any archives open in the former East Germany?

Lothar Machtan, Ph.D.: Most of my archive material I indeed got from former GDR archives, but the sources that most contributed to my evidence came from Bavarian archives.

Beaumont, Texas: How do German youth of today perceive Hitler as a leader and to what extent do they disregard the holocaust and Hitler's role in its evolution?

Lothar Machtan, Ph.D.: I'm absolutely sure that the vast majority of the German youth is aware of Hitler's responsibility for the Holocaust, and doesn't see a hero in him at all. But there is still some neo-Nazi movement from a very small minority who would like to adore Hitler and deny any responsibility. What I stress in my book is that Holocaust has nothing to do with Hitler's homosexuality at all. The driving forces behind the Holocaust and WWII were Hitler's racism, his will to destroy, and his hubris.

Washington, D.C.: You said Himmler "pressured" Hitler beginning in 1943 when it started to become clear that Germany would lose. Can you amplify this point?

Lothar Machtan, Ph.D.: There is some evidence that Himmler might have intimidated Hitler in 1943 in order to make him agree to some peace plans that Himmler suggested at that time to avoid this catastrophe. But as I said before, more research has to be done in that area to find out what all this was really about.

Pittsburgh, Pa.: What was Hitler's first specific move toward gaining acceptance and consolidating power: to court churches, businesses, military or other?

Lothar Machtan, Ph.D.: My research shows that some of his homosexual friends in Munich were the ones who opened many important doors for him. Especially Ernst Roehm, Dietrich Eckart, Ernst Hanfstaengl. Without the help of those influential friends, he would not have had the support that he got from bourgeois circles and even from intellectuals and artists.

Chicago, Ill.: I think one of the hardest ideas for non-academic audiences to understand is how homosexuality and milder homosocial bonding can co-exist with homophobia and the persecution of gays. An American example of this phenomenon might be J. Edgar Hoover. You seem to address this contradiction in your comments by alluding to different types of homosexuals, including some that are self-loathing or contemptous of effeminate homosexuals. Is that correct?

Lothar Machtan, Ph.D.: Homophobia and homosexual relations certainly have always coexisted, but again I must reiterate how different it was homosexual during Hitler's time as opposed to now.

Silver Spring: What about Eva Braun? Was she a decoy?

Lothar Machtan, Ph.D.: Yes, you could say she was a decoy. They had a comradely relationship, but it was meant to be a cover. It wasn't a sexual relationship.

In my eyes, Eva Braun was, after some irritations, quite aware of the role she had to play. And as I show in my book, she played that role very well.

Lothar Machtan, Ph.D.: One last point before I go. I would like to say that Hitler's homosexuality itself might not necessarily be important to history, what is important is that he had a secret that left him vulnerable to blackmail, and that left him paranoid to the point of murder. That secret happened to be homosexuality.

Thank you very much for your interest. It was very nice talking to you.

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