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America Attacked:
Racial Profiling
With Raul Yzaguirre
President of National Council La Raza
Tuesday, Sept. 25, 2001; 1:30 p.m. EDT
The Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon are being
called the single worst act of terrorism on U.S. soil. The Bush
administration has declared war on terrorism as the country considers
new measures for homeland security. A military build-up continues as
troops, ships and planes prepare for an as yet undisclosed mission.
Raul Yzaguirre, President of NCLR, will answer questions and comments from readers on Tuesday, Sept. 25 at 1:30 p.m. EDT, to discuss racial profiling and racial bias during times of war.
For over 35 years, Raul Yzaguirre is one of the most widely recognized leaders in the civil
rights on
behalf of Hispanic Americans. As President of the National Council
of La Raza (NCLR), the largest constituency-based national Hispanic
organization based in Washington, D.C., he
continues his lifelong mission to improve opportunities for Hispanic
Americans.
Since joining NCLR in 1974, Yzaguirre has spearheaded its
emergence as the most influential and respected Hispanic organization in
the country. Yzaguirre has been honored on many occasions for his work. In 1979,
he was the first Hispanic to receive a Rockefeller Public Service Award for
Outstanding Public Service from the Trustees of Princeton University.
From 1989 to 1990, he served as one of the first Hispanic Fellows of the
Institute of Politics at the John F. Kennedy School of Government at
Harvard University. In 1993, Yzaguirre received the Order of the Aztec
Eagle, the highest honor given by the government of Mexico to
non-citizens. Also that year he was the recipient of the Hubert H.
Humphrey Civil Rights Award from the Leadership Conference on Civil
Rights. In 1998, he was honored with the Charles Evan Hughes Gold
Medal Award for courageous leadership in civic and humanitarian affairs by
the National Conference for Community and Justice.
Below is the transcript.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control
over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests
and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Raul Yzaguirre: I'm very happy to be here and this is a difficult for all Americans and I'm pleased with the patriotism and unity in response to these attacks on America. I join my fellow Americans in looking for solutions to these threats.
Newark, Del.:
Hi Raul, What steps one can/should take in order to avoid racial harassment in public places. I don't want to walk around wearing a sticker saying "I am not a Muslim" becuase that will mean it is okay to harass Muslims but leave me alone. Thank you for addressing my question.
Raul Yzaguirre: I think there is some individual and collective actions we can take. I think we need to thank the President for attending the mosque and telling the world that America does not have a war with Muslims or Arabs. Secondly, I think we can sponsor and support legislation that make racial profiling and hate crimes a felony. Thirdly, we can lead by example by speaking out at every opportunity that we have that acts of bigotry play into the hands of terrorists and we give them the victory when we trample on our principles.
New Haven, Conn.:
Mr. Yzaguirre --
I am a junior faculty member at a U.S. university who will be traveling to Washington, D.C. this weekend for a conference. I have two concerns -- first, I am of a Middle Eastern ethnicity and I have read reports of "dark-looking" passengers being removed from flights ostensibly because of passenger and/or crew concerns about their appearance. Second, I am also concerned that as a foreign citizen (Canadian, with a valid U.S. work visa), that I may face particular scrutiny during my travels. Do you have any suggestions on what I should do during my trip this weekend? This is particularly disconcerting since I lived in Washington for a few years and still have many close friends in the city. But I am increasingly concerned about flying because of being "profiled."
Thanks for your thoughts.
Raul Yzaguirre: I think you should be prepared to answer where you are going and why you are going there. I think you should have the letter of invitation and proper documents and passport with you at all times. It probably won't hurt if you wear an American flag or pin. Try to travel with friends if you can and tell your family and friends where they can contact you.
Lastly, I regret any inconvenience or uncomfortable experiences that you might encounter. I assure you that many Americans are tolerant people.
Washington, D.C.:
I am a student at Howard University, and understand that the acts of some, does not represent the acts and opinions of all. My question is how can we as a nation come together after this terrible event and
treat all Americans regardless of race or religious beliefs with respect and realize that we are all together in this, instead of
taking our frustrations out on innocent people.
Raul Yzaguirre: First of all, people like you who have these sentiments need to speak loudly and frequently. I think some of us in leadership positions and political leaders need to articulate that the basic reality of what we are fighting for is basically freedom from bigotry and prejudice and that all men are equal.
Washington, D.C.:
Why are we having this debate?
Racial and ethnic profiling works the way it's intended to - over the extent of broad groups, not with respect to every individual member of the statistical group.
So why doesn't it make perfect sense to intelligently use racial and ethnic profiling as an appropriate analytic screen? If it was statistically unreliable, cops wouldn't use profiling, because it wouldn't make them any overtime and increase their pensions.
I suspect that the real reasons many groups out there (including yours) oppose racial and ethnic profiling is that it identifies the most socialized members of the group directly with the least socialized members of the group. An example of this result: this emotionally forces the Hispanic Calif. Court of Appeals Judge to either prove that he's not a posse man, or to defend those who are. The truth is, that's just race-shame. And you know it.
Racial and ethnic profiling - as a screen and not a proxy for actual guilt or innocence - works, and works well. Please stop hindering the public safety by opposing it.
Raul Yzaguirre: We need a common sense approach for this very difficult question. Let me give you an analogy-- if you witness a crime committed by an Anglo blue-eyed blonde male driving a white car, it would make sense for the police to focus on everybody who is a Anglo blue-eyed blonde male driving a white car, but it would not make any sense to stop every male who is blonde and blue-eyed just because they are white males and blue-eyed. Secondly the other common sense approach is to try to make us feel safe and not just make us feel better. So the point being that if we were to target all Arabs or all Arab looking people, that would not make us any safer as a society. What it would do would be to alienate an entire group of people against the rest of us. Thirdly, I can assure you that having been a victim of racial profiling, we see this issue from a very different perspective.
Austin, Texas
Regarding racial profiling, every one of those 4 planes which crashed were crashed by folks engaged in racial profiling -- against us.
Racial profiling in the course of our war against these terrorists and the countries and cultures which have supported them in the past and which support them now is a bona fide, valuable tool of war.
Anyone who whines in these times about racial profiling is engaged in making America even more vulnerable. This makes them a stooge of the enemy.
Never forget.
Raul Yzaguirre: We ought to learn from our experiences. During WWII, we did racial profiling on hundreds and thousands of American citizens of Japanese descent based on the logic that you are articulating that is that the Japanese engaged in racial profiling when they attacked America. The internment of those hundreds and thousands of American citizens did not make us any safer. That action did not help us defeat Japan. On the contrary, it undermined our moral authority and deprived hundreds of thousands of American citizens from serving their country and bringing the war to an earlier conclusion. Lastly, years after we as Americans were ashamed of what we did and paid reparations to survivors of those concentration camps. Let's not repeat that shameful history.
Virginia:
Have any Latinos been mistaken for Arab American and hence had some problems?
Raul Yzaguirre: Yes we've had reports of lots of Latinos being mistaken for Arab Americans. It's not only Hispanics but Italian Americans and other southern Europeans have also been mistaken for Arab Americans. So, there's a lesson here for all of us that bigotry is not particularly smart either in a moral sense or even at a street level sense.
Troy, N.Y.:
What should Arab's do at such a time? Should they give up their freedoms to proof their patriotism?
Also, I am afraid the new legistlation does not create a clear cut definition for those who harbor terrorist? Do yo think that Arabs run the risk of becoming suspects at large simply because of political opinions?
Raul Yzaguirre: Very good question which gives me an opportunity to urge caution to our elected officials particularly those officials and Congressmen who are considering anti-terrorism legislation. In our understandable desire to pursue terrorists and to ensure our own collective safety, we must protect basic constitutional freedoms and basic American principles. There are elements in the legislation that trample or have the potential of trampling our basic American values. For example, there are proposals that would allow the government to arrest and detain individuals who have contributed money to what they were thought were charitable organizations who unbeknownst to the contributor channel money to terrorist groups. So that if you contributed to an organization associated with the Likud party in Israel or the Irish Republican Army in Ireland or a Muslim religious group, you potentially could be endangering your freedom if this legislation were to pass.
Richmond, VA:
Mr. Yzaguirre:
A conservative columnist recently wrote that as a result of the 9/11 attack, our open society will have to become less open, and that given the attack and our current conditions, the racial profiling argument "simply looks quaint." What's your response to this?
Raul Yzaguirre: My response is that basic American principles, basic human rights, basic civil liberties are never "quaint." These are principles that Americans throughout history have fought for and given their lives for to further.
Cottage City, Md.:
It is distressing to see how stupid we remain after so much experience. Didn't we just decide to pay reparations to our Japanese citizens for stealing their property and tossing them into camps? And now we want to do it again -- only not to Japanese, because we've learned they're okay, now it will be "ragheads." The fools who are harassing and attacking Middle Easterners don't seem to have paid the least attention; the pilot-terrorists wore short hair, no turbans, western clothes. And they weren't Afghan, but Saudi and Egyptian. Whose countries are allies of ours. And their cult is anathema to most Muslims.
Raul Yzaguirre: Amen. I could not have said it any better.
Miami, Fla.:
With all due respect to Arab Americans, the fact of the matter is that these terrorists bombings are being conducted by Middle Eastern men, thus why all this fuss about political correctness? Thus, for the time being, unfortunately, for national security reasons they should be screened more so than non-Arab looking people. The same is true at US borders, you look Mexican, US officials will scrutinize you more. If I'm American first Arab second, it's a sacrifice but for the time being I should be ok with that. What do you think?
Raul Yzaguirre: Well as I indicated earlier, we ought to have a common sense approach. Behavior not appearance should be more a compelling factor. The courts have held the racial profiling is unconstitutional except when taken under unusual circumstances and when taken into account other elements like suspicious behavior and other articulated reason or cause. You can't use race or ethnicity alone, there has to be another factor. Also at a practical level, there are over 10 million Arab and Muslim Americans in the U.S. If we were to target all of them, it would dilute our resources as well as alienating a large segment of our society and that effect would be that it would not make us a safer society but make us a polarized nation.
Alexandria, VA:
Raul: First of all, I think that it is sad that it took something like this to open our eyes and attempt to come togethor as one. But I sit here thinking to myself that profiling is no way right, but now people may see what it has felt like and still feels like to be African American constantly being profiled. And secondly we critisize countries about being cowards with terrorism but what is Hate Crime? Isn't that being a coward as well? Am I wrong for feeling this way? Should I feel this way?
Raul Yzaguirre: I think you are right in believing that terrorists are cowards and racial profiling is an act of stupidity and small-mindedness. I think our challenge is to appeal to the better instincts of Americans in the midst of fear and hate.
washington, dc:
My fiance is Persian and has been getting some comments about looking like a terrorist, nothing violent and usually in front of others, but we worry. We think he should respond in some way, but he doesn't want to call more attention the issue and possibly unleash someone's anger. How do you suggest he respond? Thanks.
Raul Yzaguirre: Smile, say "God Bless America" and say "Isn't this a wonderful country? I'm proud to be American and God Bless You."
Silver Spring, Md.:
As much as we Americans would like to pretend that the next terrorist attack will be from a Swede or German, isn't it time that the authorities start looking at the statistics of who the perpetrators of most terrorist attacks are and find out what they most have in common? Profiling could be a very helpful tool in saving lives.
Raul Yzaguirre: There is a difference between profiling and racial profiling. Profiling in terms of behavior, in terms of dress, in terms of whether or not you check in your suitcase, acting nervously, buying a one way ticket -- these are all acceptable profiles of potential terrorists. If ethnicity is one of many elements of a profile, then it makes some sense. But if ethnicity or race is the only criteria for differential treatment, that is not acceptable and more importantly it is not useful and in fact, counter-productive.
Arlington, VA:
In our current fight against terrorism, it seems to me that racial profiling, as a defensive measure on the home front, is a better alternative to offensive measures in foreign lands and the "collateral damage" that will result. Shouldn't people be willing to give up some of their civil rights if it means saving the lives of both Americans here and foreign civilians abroad?
Raul Yzaguirre: Yes I'm perfectly willing to give up some of my civil rights in terms of waiting longer to catch a flight, producing more documents to ascertain my identity, succumb to more searches for lethal weapons or explosives. All of those things are done in uniform basis are I think appropriate. What makes no sense and is counter-productive is to single me or anyone else out as a potential security risk based soley and exclusively on my race or my ethnicity. Again, it is not only wrong but it is stupid.
Jacksonville, Fla.:
Mr. Yzaguirre,
I recently read an article in the NYT that a certain amount of Americans (they presented some disturbingly high precentages) are in favor of racial profiling be it temporary, and in multitple forms. Is there some sort of constitutional laws prohibiting this? Please tell me there are consitutional laws prohibiting this.
Raul Yzaguirre: There are indeed Constitutional laws prohibiting this. The Supreme Court has ruled that race and ethnicity cannot be the sole criteria for differential treatment of people in the U.S. There are some exceptions to that in terms of customs or immigration, that is people coming into the U.S. But once in this country, race and ethnicity cannot and should not be the basis for bigotry.
Go to the American Civil Liberties Union website, write to your local ACLU office, or even conservative groups like the
KATO Institute who provide information on basic civil liberties.
Washington, D.C.:
The story on the front page today on the number of people already arrested provides some tonic to those who would stereotype all the participants as Arab Muslim fanatics. It seems some enterprising Hispanics were also complicit in allowing these murderers to gain a foothold in the area.
Raul Yzaguirre: I'm not aware of "enterprising Hispanics" but I think that your comment clearly establishes the point that terrorists can be of all races and all ethnicities. Let us not forget that during the Oklahoma bombing there was a rush of judgement to blame Arabs and Muslims and in the end we realized that the terrorist was an army veteran of good all American extraction with a good all American name. I think there is a lesson to be learned.
Kennesaw, Ga.:
Why are Americans are so ignorent on different ethnic origins and country people even though US is represented by almost all nationality people? Mistakenly killing Sikhs who are from India and don't have anything to do with Islam seems foolish and also might not help U.S. in gaining every country's support.
Raul Yzaguirre: You are absolutely right. We are a nation of immigrants but we seem to want to forget the rest of the world and our countries of origin. We are the leader of the free world and the only remaining superpower on earth. That would suggest a people who have a knowledge of geography and a sophistication about the rest of the world. Sadly, that is not the case. To give you a sense of what I mean by that, the U.S. is the most linguistically ignorant nation in the industrialized west.
Ypsilanti, Mich.:
Where were Arab-Americans when African-Americans were protesting racial profiling? I feel that they didn't care and now they want help to deal with their situation. Believe it or not most people in the urban communities don't care because Arab-American store and gas station owners have treated African-Americans in those communities unfairly and now what comes around goes around.
Raul Yzaguirre: We need to establish standards that we can all abide by. We ought to promote racial tolerance no matter who the victim is and we should be against racial profiling no matter the race or ethnicity of the victim. I'm honored to have the priviledge to have marched with Martin Luther King, Jr. and I'm proud to identify myself with the principles that he enunciated. He did not want, nor do I want, to have justice for just us. We want justice for all. One standard of comportment for everybody. I don't know where any given individual or groups stood during evidence of racial profiling in any given city. But I do know that racial profiling is wrong and I'm against it whether it is directed against Arab Americans, African Americans, Latinos or any other group.
Raul Yzaguirre: This is clearly a time of great trials and tribulations for the American people. During times like these, either the best in us and the worst in us tends to surface. I appeal to the American people that we listen to our better side not our dark side.
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