America At War:
U.S. Relations with China
With James R. Lilley
Former U.S. Ambassador to China
Friday, Oct. 19, 2001; Postponed to 5 p.m. EDT

James R. Lilley, former U.S. Ambassador to China, comes online Friday, Oct. 19 at 11 a.m. EDT to talk about President Bush's visit to China to seek support for his international campaign for war on terrorism.

"When the United States turned its attention to Central Asia last month in an effort to build a coalition to fight terrorism, it was following in the recent footsteps of another power that has been pressing to expand its influence in the region.

Last year, China forged a regional pact against terrorism, drug-running and Islamic radicalism. Like the United States, the country now aids military and security services in Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan. In June, Beijing said it would even consider joint operations against terrorism -- a major break with China's past policies, which rejected even a hint of joint military action." Read the article In Its Own Neighborhood, China Emerges as Leader (Post, Oct. 18, 2001).

A transcript follows.

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washingtonpost.com: Ambassador Lilley,
What do you see as the outcome of U.S. and China relations with a joint effort on the war on terrorism. Has China decided to join the war on terrorism or are they just supportive of what we're doing? How will China or the U.S. benefit from each other's resources and would that be a good idea to exchange intelligence information. What is the sentiment among other Asian nations?

James R. Lilley: The short is that we don't know yet. What you have are the statements the Chinese have made on terrorism which have been consistent for a number of years that they are against terrorism repeatedly and have an agreement for the SCO in May of 1996 started in Shanghai along with four other major central Asian republics. They are also against the intervention of another country. They consider that as a violation of sovereignty of that country. So you have two conflicting principles in China. They are against terrorism in all its forms and they are also against the interference of the internal affairs of a sovereign nation. Now in the case of Afghanistan, the Chinese have taken a positive rhetorical position with the U.S. They have indicated that they will help us in intelligence sharing, money laundering and they have moved troops into the border area of Afghanistan to seal the border against intrusions. They have moved forward but have made conditions on this. They say there should not be any collateral damage on civilians and whatever military action is taken should be under the U.N. auspices. So they have played certain caviots on their support. They also consistently raised their own "splittest" problems and have equated this in their northwestern of Xin Jiang and Uigher minority Muslim population. They also would like to see the U.S. modify its position on Taiwan which they claim is part of China. And they say support for the U.S. for Taiwan supports splittism. On our part, we would like to see China curb its export of weapons of mass destruction to states which support terrorism: Pakistan, N. Korea, Syria, Libya and Sudan.

We have the ability to destroy the Taliban and Osama bin Laden or neutralize him which would help the Chinese establish greater control in northwest China. They have a vast intelligence network in Central Asian republics and ways to help us to persuade Pakistan and others (because they have great influence on Pakistan). I think we have been exchangin information for years and all we do now is step it up and focus it on terrorism. We did this against the Soviet Union and it was quite successful and the infrastructure is in place to do it and be successful again.

The other Asian nations look at it differently but you might say that there is an overall pattern. They are concerned about the growing power of China, particularly its military power projection and its claims on the south china sea over Taiwan, and Senkaki islands. They will not express themselves openly because they want to work with and are afraid of China. They do not want to see a showdown between the U.S. and China but want to see the U.S. and China work together. They do want to see the U.S. economic, political and military power offset China.

Washington, D.C.: How would you characterize Sino-Russian relations?

Are close Sino-Russian ties a threat to either U.S.-Russia relations or Sino-U.S. relations? It seems to me that a stronger Russia-China link can't help but undermine America's bilateral relations with both Moscow and Beijing.

Thank you Ambassador.

James R. Lilley: American relations with Russia over the last six weeks have improved rapidly. In part because of Pres. Putin desire to use this situation to move Russia towards the West and not towards the East. He may see Russia's interest with the West with a more accomodating Russia and a more flexible U.S. China sees both Russia and Japan actively supportive of the U.S. campaign against terrorism. China may see that it seems lagging. China impart is motivated to join us because of what Russia and Japan are doing. And as the U.S. and Russia relations seems to be growing rapidly, China leverage over the U.S. is decreased but China is still able on a supply and demand basis able to get the military hardware it needs from a very poor Russia. This may be a threat against us.

Edmonton, Canada: Are the definitions of terrorism by the United States and China the same? If not, how will these two countries hold together to fight against terrorism?

James R. Lilley: We disagree on some terrorisms and disagree on others. We agree on Osama bin Laden but we do not agree on the Buddhist Wheel association may be a terrorist group. We have to get our priorities right and whatever we don't agree we need to put aside.

washingtonpost.com:

That wraps up today's show. Thanks to everyone who joined the discussion.

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