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America At War:
Colin Powell's Visit to Pakistan and India
With Akbar Ahmed
Fmr. Pakistani Ambassador to Great Britain and
Chair, Islamic Studies, American University
Tuesday, Oct. 16, 2001; 3 p.m. EDT
Secretary of State Colin Powell is meeting this week in Pakistan and India with officials of both countries on reopening military ties between them and to encourage a reduction in tensions over Kashmir. President Bush has urged India and Pakistan to try to avoid military conflict over Kashmir, because fighting there "could create issues" for the U.S. campaign in Afghanistan.
Akbar Ahmed, former Pakistani ambassador to Great Britain and now chair of Islamic Studies at American University, was online Tuesday, Oct. 16, at 3 p.m. EDT, to discuss Secretary Powell's meetings with President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan and Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee of India.
In addition, Ahmed will answer the question, "Who are we fighting?" and offer his insight into what's next in the war on terrorism.
Ahmed is also an anthropologist, writer and filmmaker. He has been actively involved in interfaith dialogue and the study of global Islam and its impact on contemporary society.
A transcript follows.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control
over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Washington, DC:
Newspaper reports have indicated that there are many Taliban supporters in the Pakistan army. Recently, Musharfaf removed several Pakistani generals for their support of the Taliban and bin Laden. If the war in Afghanistan continues for an extended period, how will this effect Musharraf and his ability to control the Pakistani army? Will there be dissent within the Pakistani army?
Akbar Ahmed: The longer the war lasts in Afghanistan the greater the pressure on President Musharraf. He has repeatedly made that clear to Washington. The processions in Pakistan continue throughout the country and emotiions are high.
Lyon, France:
This question may seem hopelessely naive but here it goes... I've heard of a women's opposition movement in Afghanistan. Are the military/political players using these established networks to gain support for the current military action ("fight fire with fire": destabilize one network with another)? Is there any way/hope to include these legitimate voices of opposition in the reconstruction of Afghanistan?
Akbar Ahmed: Women has suffered under the Taliban as they are banned from working in public offices. In the reconstruction of Afghanistan women need to play a positive role. These must include women from all the ethnic groups.
Atlanta, Ga.:
The other day in a interview with CNN, the Pakistan abmassador to the U.N. said that Paksitan is, in fact, facing serious terrorism problems across the border from Afghanistan. This was the question that was put to the ambassador that Pakistan was helping the Taliban (I mean the terrorist) in all fields. I was bemused to hear from the ambassador say that "we are in fact facing terrorism from Afghanistan". My question to you is why Pakistan till today hasn't severed the ties with the Taliban. Right from Gen Zia ul Haq times, Pakistan has been funding the Taliban so that the government there would be sympathetic to its Islamic fundamentalism that each ruler of Pakistan has been preaching. It is so appalling to see and hear that when millions of poor Pakistanis don't have basic needs, the successive governmentt of Pakistan has been aiding and encouraging terrorism to breed.
Akbar Ahmed: It is a fact of history that the Taliban have been supported by Pakistan and by the USA. However, they seem to have created an independence from their patrons. The result is before us.
Fairfax:
Amb. Ahmed, thanks for your time.
Will Powell be able to talk some common sense into the two sides, to back off on the Kashmir dispute? Seems like half the time, the fighting is over a glacier -- literally a stretch of ice and rock that no one would or could ever live on.
Akbar Ahmed: Mr. Colin Powell is on an important mission because the situation between India and Pakistan is serious. Suicide bombers killed many people a few days ago and there has been shelling across the international border by the army. The situation could escalate into actually military fighting. The fight has not been over a glacier, but the state of Kashmir. India and Pakistan have fought 3 wars over Kashmir and about 50,000 people have lost their lives fighting for independence. Senior figures in Washington call this the most dangerous place in the world today.
Boston, Mass.:
1. Historically, Americans have proved to be fickle friends of Pakistan despite SEATO, CENTO and Pakistan's role in defeating the Soviet Union's invasion in Afghanistan. Why should Pakistan believe the Americans this time?
2. According to recent polls and anecdotal data 80% of the Moslesm do NOT support the American war on Afghanistan. In fact most see an American hand behind Israeli occupation of Palestine, death of countless millions in Iraq in the last 11 years, etc. What does America have to do to win the hearts and minds of Moslems in general and Pakistanis in particular? Can America change its foreign policies 180 degrees and actually befriend the people of Arabia and Moslems? Can America admit that it has been wrong?
Akbar Ahmed: You are right. Pakistanis feel badly let down by the Americans who they considered as friends and allies. During the Cold War the Pakistanis were very much in the American camp. During Afghanistan's war against Soviet occupation Pakistan again supported the American cause. As a result it took ain millions of refugees which caused disruption in its social and economic structures. The Kalashnikov and drug culture is attributed to the war in Afghanistan in the 1980s. Many Pakistanis feel that America will walk away once it no longer needs Pakistan.
Chicago, Ill.:
1. Are there any chances that U.S. will try to get involved in solving the issue of Kashmir according to the resolutions of the U.N?
2. What part does the Kashmir issue plays in the increasing Islamic radicalism in Pakistan?
Akbar Ahmed: The UN have passed several resolutions about Kashmir over the last 50 years which have been ignored. The Kashmiris demand a plebiscite so that they can express their political will as promised in the UN resolutions. Much blood has been spilt in Kashmir and people have suffered. Kashmir has kept India and Pakistan warring. America as the sole superpower has the capacity to make sure the problem is resolved and there is peace in South Asia. THe question is will it have the long term stamina to do so.
Arlington, Va.:
Sunday's unprovoked artillery firing on 11 Pakistani military posts at a time when Secretary Powell is in the area, seems to be intended to give a very loud signal to the U.S. administration that India will do whatever it likes without caring for the U.S. and international concerns. Your opinion?
Akbar Ahmed: I agree with you. I suspect the firing was intended as a message that this is a hot border. It underlines the dangers and importance of the region.
Washington, D.C.:
In your opinion, what percentage of the population sides with the government and its Western-leaning policy?
If there were free elections in Pakistan, do you think a Taliban government would come to power?
Thanks for your opinion.
Akbar Ahmed: There are two different things. The people of Pakistan in free elections have never given more than a few seats to the religious parties. However, in this situation even ordinary Pakistanis feel emotionally involved as they see the bombing of a neighbor and a Muslim country. Religious parties have of course expressed very strong support for the Taliban. This does not mean that when it's all over that Pakistanis will vote for the Taliban in Pakistan.
Alexandria, Va.:
Sir,
Is it realistic to expect democracy to work in Afghanistan, or any Muslim country for that matter? Or is it inherently against Islamic principles?
Thank you.
Akbar Ahmed: Islam preaches an egalitarian order and this emphasizes democracy in the modern sense. It is true that most Muslim countries are not true or functioning democracies. I believe this is one of the causes of the frustration of ordinary Muslims throughout the world. People want accountable governments which democracy promises. They're faced with military dictatorships or dynastic rule. They ask when will we enjoy the fruits of living in the 21st century?
Eatontown, N.J.:
Today, the U.S. House of Representatives is voting on allowing the President to waive economic and military sanctions against Pakistan (for two years).
If Musharaff's ability to govern is being threatend, is American economic support enough to keep him in power? Will he need military support from the U.S.?
Akbar Ahmed: Lifting sactions would strengthen Pakistans economy and restore confidence in the social and industrial structures. If Pakistan can then get back on the road to proper democracy it ahs a chance to stabalize the future. However, American military support against the people of Pakistan is not a viable option for the present situation if the processions and protests continue. President Musharrif will have to tackle the domestic front through political negotiations and talks.
Arlington, Va.:
Please explain the significance of Kashmir and why it is so strategically important.
Akbar Ahmed: Kashmir is important for Pakistan for several reasons. First because the main rivers come from Kashmir. Second, large numbers of Kashmiris have settled in Pakistan and have a close historical link with the land. Third, Pakistanis feel that Partition in 1947 which created Pakistan was based on the Muslim majority areas coming to Pakistan and Kashmir which had 80% Muslim population could not. Pakistanis feel very strongly about Kashmir and no political party could compromise on it. That is why emotions are so strong about Kashmir.
Los Angeles, Calif.:
Could you comment on the general observation that Pakistan is well on it's way to becoming a "failed state" (with nuclear weapons!) and the reason that Islamic fundamentalism has taken over many parts of the country is because there is hardly any civil society. Rule of law or representative democracy. In fact, the "Talibanization" of Pakistan is a much touted term. One thing the new-found financial and perhaps military 'goodies' from the U.S. will NOT do is restore civil society where it has been lost. Your comments and observations?
Akbar Ahmed: Pakistan is a land of paradox. A Pakistani has won the Nobel Prize and Pakistan is a nuclear power. On the other hand, there is widespread breakdown of law and order and even the ordinary functioning of government is slow and sometimes nonexistent. Minorities feel threatened and vulnerable because of the so called "Blasphemy Laws." HOwever, I do believe that most Pakistanis would want Pakistan to become a modern progressive nation based on universal principles of democracy and human rights. The US needs to ensure that its aid helps Pakistan in that direction.
D.C.:
Professor Ahmed,
Thanks for doing this. There's so much I don't understand about Pakistan and Islam, and I appreciate you helping to edify us.
Here's my question (please pardon my ignorance): In many interviews of Islamic people, the bombing in Afghanistan is viewed as an attack on Islam. I don't understand this perspective. Is this because Muslims feel threatened by America? Or is it because we're a secular country, and people would feel the same way if any non-Islamic republic, like Tibet for intance, was bombing Afghanistan?
Along these lines, could it be that the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks are meant also as an attack on Christianity (not that the U.S. is a Christian republic, but we might be perceived as such)?
Akbar Ahmed: Most ordinary Muslims are unhappy with the bombing of Afghanistan as we see from the protests throughout the MUslim world on our television screens. While Muslims were shocked and had complete sympathy for the victims of events of September 11, they feel that bombing an impoverished Muslim nation all ready suffering from near starvation conditions is not right. The longer the war continues the greater the passion in the protests.
Alexandria, Va.:
Turkey has diplomatic relations with Israel, as do Jordan and Egypt and Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan and other Moslem countries.
Why doesn't Pakistan have diplomatic relations with Israel?
Akbar Ahmed: Pakistan traditionally has supported the Palestinians and will look to the other Arab countries before having diplomatic relations with Israel.
Boston, Mass.:
The American government and especially the American people don't seem to "get it" in matters of foreign policy as opposed to the English or the French. Even decision makers and "pundits" seem to rant off wrong names, wrong countries and even wrong concepts.
What is lacking in the American culture for this shallowness? Is it the "dumbing down" of news by the American news media or are there other factors? Why don't Americans get BBC or Al-Jazeera on cable channels? Is ignorance bliss for Americans?
Akbar Ahmed: Britain and France have had long historical dealings with many Muslim societies. Their colonization of Muslim lands gave them an opportunity to interact. Many books were written on these places. America has relatively little experience of Muslim countries. Allthough there has been a Muslim presense in America, the Arabs and the South Asians are new immagrants. The American media therefore is unsure of how to handle the question of "Islam." I am amused to see that they cannot even pronounce the word Muslim. As Muhmad Ali said, "Muzlim is the cloth and Muslim is what a believer of Islam is." I believe this is a good time for America to understand Islam as a global phenominon, culture and religion.
Rockville, Md.:
Mr. Ahmed,
What can the U.S. do about the problem of corruption in Pakistan?
Akbar Ahmed: More accountability, more democracy and more law will check corruption.
Washington, D.C.:
Over the past several months, I've heard Egyptian, Moroccan and other Arab officials, as well as an Iraqi opposition leader, all talk about the need to seek a "fair peace" in the Middle East, and suggesting that the U.S., as the "sole superpower," has not done well in adjusting and balancing its foreign policy to seek and support such "fairness" in that region and around the world since the end of the Cold War.
Would you agree with this assessment? What are the steps you would recommend to address this issue for the long term? And, what steps would you advise for the short term regarding the current U.S.-led war against terrorism and military campaign against the Taliban?
Akbar Ahmed: I have tried to address this and other issues that are causing problems in the understanding between the Islam and the West in my Book "Islam Today: A Short Introduction to the Muslim World."
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