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Radio Talk
With Frank Ahrens
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, Sept. 5, 2001; 1 p.m. EDT
Frank Ahrens covers radio for The Washington Post. His column -- "The Listener" -- appears every other Tuesday in the Style section. Frank is also a general assignment feature writer, and his reporting subjects have included everything from minivans to murders, from baseball to bandwidth.
If you're wondering about the inner workings of radio in Washington, around the country and on the Web, or want to know what Frank really thinks of minivans, then don't touch that dial... um, mouse! Please join us for this discussion!
Also, check out another edition of Radio Lives with Frank Ahrens, a series of conversations with washington radio's biggest stars. On this episode, Ahrens interviews WTOP traffic reporter Lisa Baden.
A transcript follows.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control
over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Frank Ahrens: Greetings all, and welcome to the discussion.
We're coming to you live from the annual radio National Association of Broadcasters show in New Orleans. Where it is hot, sticky and generally sinful. Sort of like Pamela Anderson's bedroom. Bad-da-boom!
This is the big annual radio lovefest, where vendors come to try to sell their products and syndicated shows, and radio station owners/general managerws/program directors, etc., come to drink. Okay, and do a little work. Of course, as your faithful co-respondant, I can assure you I am all work. Sitting to my right here in the press room of the NAB convention is one Jeffrey Yorke, Washington Bureau Chief of the respected trade journal, Radio and Records, and--more important for our purposes here--a prior custodian of The Listener column. Please feel free to pass along your greetings, those of you who've been following the Listener for some years.
At any rate, this week's column concerned news/talker WMAL and what's going on in afternoons there. (Syndicated talker Sean Hannity coming and taking away an hour of Chris Core's time.)
Let's get to your questios...cajun style!
Gaithersburg, Md.:
So WMAL is dropping an hour of Chris Core in favor of more syndicated talk. Thank God! Just what AM radio and MAL in particular need: more syndicated talk. I was just saying the other day, gosh, I wish they'd add another syndicated talk show to the WMAL lineup. Rush Limbaugh and Dr. Laura and Matt Drudge aren't stupid and didactic enough by themselves.
Bye, Chris! Bye, Willie Waffle! If you want me, I'll be over on NPR. And if you ever put anything entertaining and intelligent on, like maybe Stan Freberg, make sure it airs in the middle of the night so nobody can hear it.
Frank Ahrens: That may be a larger reaction than just one disgruntled listener. Even Core lamented the decreasing among of local personalities on his own station.
Pittsburgh, Pa.:
Hi Frank-
Did you happen to catch Greaseman (sorry, Doug Tracht) sitting in for Oliver North a couple of weeks ago? I thought he made a fairly good straight talk host.
I was especially surprised at what a voice he's got. Guess it hadn't occurred to me when listening to his normal goofy schtick.
Any thoughts?
Frank Ahrens: Hi, Pittsuburgh. How 'bout them Pirates. (Ooops...probably a sore subject.)
Yes, dropped in an heard some of Tracht's subbing for Oliver North. I didn't listen long enough to fairly form a full opinion but, as I stated I think a couple of weeks ago, I think he sort of sounded like he was straining to keep the Greaseman back. Tracht has always been recognized as a hugely talented broadcaster; whether that requires him to remain in the Greaseman character I think remains to be seen.
Washington, D.C.:
Hi Frank,
I read your column about the Pacifica crisis. Have you considered interviewing the other side of the crisis: Amy Goodman or Juan Gonzalez who have been harassed and banned by Pacifica?
Frank Ahrens: I'd love to send you all of the columns I've written over the past 2 1/2 years on the Pacifica crisis, in which I've talked to: Amy Goodman, Larry Bensky, Juan Gonzalez, Nicole Sawaya and just about every other fired/banned/harrassed/martyred Pacifica broadcaster in the stable. The one person I HADN'T talked to was Bessie Wash, Pacifica ExecDir, who I interviewed a month or so ago. I bet you could go to any of the Save Pacifica Web sites and find my past coverage on this topic.
Outraged Soccer Mom: Is WMAL Crazy?:
What the heck is WMAL doing? I listen every day as I pick my kids up in Fairfax County. It was bad enough when they started Rush, at least they mitigated it somewhat by sticking Dr. Laura in the middle (also nuts, but at least saying -- though in the meanest possible way -- take responsibility for your actions). Now I have to sit through another right wing nut to get to balanced radio with Chris Core? Good thing my kids are busy in the afternoon so I don't have to get them much before 5 p.m. when it will be safe to listen.
Is this a definite deal? What if this Hannity character gets bad ratings -- will Chris be back on at 4 p.m.? (Or maybe they'll boot Tim Brandt and we could have Chris and Andy in the morning -- now THAT would be a good way to start the day.)
Funny headline by the way.
Frank Ahrens: Thanks, OSM. You're in Core's core demographic so it's expected that you're going to be upset. Yes, I think this is definite...ABC needs someone to replace Rush if Clear Channel decides to take him away, as I referenced in the column.
Classic Rock Watch:
Hello Frank -- it's me again, your loyal WARW Classic Rock watcher. Well, after making two steps forward by increasing their rotation depth and throwing a great pre-Yes concert party at Wolf Trap two weeks ago, 94.7 has taken another step backward. I could swear they play Fleetwood Mac at least once an hour. Talk about bands that give '70s rock a bad name. Every time I drive to work, Fleetwood Mac. Every time I drive home, Fleetwood Mac. Please, for the love of God, no more Fleetwood Mac! They're bloated dinosaurs (unlike Yes. Ha ha). Once again I implore you, and express my thanks in advance, for passing this along to the suits at 94.7, who we hope are listening.
Frank Ahrens: Good to hear from you. I rely on my legion of listeners to keep me attuned to stuff like this. And I know the stations listen, too. Part of it is perception: I told WARW program director Phil Locasio a couple of weeks ago that I'd heard Billy Joel's "The Stranger" frequently in the past couple of weeks and he told me it had been inserted into steady rotation sometime in the spring!
Damascus, MD:
Speaking of WMAL and Chris Core, whatever happened to Susan Monday at the news desk? I thought they had a good rapport with each other. Of course, I also liked Brooke Steves with Chris, so I might not be a good judge.
Frank Ahrens: From what I understand, Monday wanted to pair with Core a la Brooke Stevens as a regular host. When told that wasn't going to happen, she left.
Paris, France:
Ou est Diana Hollander de Radiodiffusion
WGMS?
Frank Ahrens: Quelle?
Je ne parlez par francois, or something. How's this in English: If I understand your question, you're asking about the whereabouts of former WGMS midday host Diana Hollander. I am told by WGMS only that she is on "extended leave." I believe there is a medical condition of some sort but neither the station nor Hollander has responded to my queries. I'm afraid that's all I can tell you.
Logan Circle, D.C.:
Any info on how Don & Mike are doing up in NYC in their new time slot? I've never been a fan, but I occasionally clicked over to them on my ride home from work. Now I don't even bother, Opie and Anthony? Do I really need some more Howard clones?
Frank Ahrens: Too early to say how Don and Mike are doing middays in NYC; give them a full book (three months) at least, if not two. That'll be toward the end of the year.
wiredog:
Two weeks ago DC101, in the process of moving, put Grease on the air for a few minutes. Talking about his couch. I thought it was nice of them.
Frank Ahrens: Hadn't heard that. Thanks for passing it along. DC101 finally left their out-in-the-boondocks station off Brookville Road in Silver Spring, which is where their transmitter tower is. They used to be near the center of town at Connecticut and M St NW (you can still see the DC101 sign on their old building). Now, DC101 moved into the Clear Channel hive out on Rockville Pike sort of near White Flint, which also contains WMZQ, Hot 99.5, WASH and Oldies 100. Also, WTEM is up there too, I believe.
Rockville, Md:
I'm submitting this early because I won't be in during the chat. How is the new lineup doing at WJFK? I have to admit, although I listened to D&M on the way home in the afternoons, but listening in my office isn't something I can do. I wonder how many other people are doing the same thing. I listen to Liddy, who is on at the same time.
Frank Ahrens: I think it's too early, just like in NYC, to judge how the lineup shuffle is doing at WJFK. Stations get Arbitrends inbetween their quarterly Aribtron books, which contain, say, the last two months of the last book and the first month of the upcoming book. I'm sure WJFK is looking at its trends, but I don't trust those much; the data sample is too small. Listen, if anyone can pack up their listeners and move them as if they were in a suitcase, it's Don and Mike.
Washington, D.C.:
Frank,
I haven't been in the car for the morning commute much the last several weeks, this morning during one of Imus' long commercial breaks I jumped up to 1390 for some Greaseman and he wasn't there. Did his pay to play experiment fail or did he find a new station? Thanks in advance for the update.
Frank Ahrens: Good question. Tracht has ended his deal broadcasting on WZHF because, I believe, they wanted a six-month lease out of him and he is pursuing other venues. He still uses the studio to broadcast his show to the handful of affiliates who've picked it up (one in NY, Balto, I think; Oregon...). Tracht is pursuing some actual deals with some major broadcasters now that, if completed, would put him on the air where they pay HIM, instead of vice versa. An actual comeback, more than two years after he was fired. Nothing to report yet, however, because nothing has been inked.
Washington, D.C.:
Am I the only person who thinks that John Thompson is horrible as a radio personality? He takes forever to get his questions out and he admittedly knows nothing about any sport except for college basketball, and even then, he's just an apologist for all the worst abuses in the NCAA. He does get good guests, but he does nothing with them.
''Let me ask you a question...''
Just ask it!!!!
Frank Ahrens: So posted. Thanks for submitting. I, too, sometimes wrestle with Thompson's delivery, but WTEM likes him. I don't have my ratings book with me, so I can't tell you what his show is doing.
D.C. Concerned:
Is Donny Simpson still with 95.5? I've been out of town and since I've been back haven't heard his voice over the signals.
Thanks
Frank Ahrens: Sure, he's still there. Probably August vacation. Knowing Donnie, he went someplace where the golf was plentiful and warm.
Laurie:
Frank ---
What is the deal - WASH?? Did they dump Randi Martin or did she dump them?
Also, during a case of insomnia this week, I happened to catch a Miss Cleo infomercial and could have sworn that Bert Weiss was amongst the cast of characters in a mock radio show.
Frank Ahrens: Hi, Laurie. Nice to hear from you.
Randi Martin was fired by WASH as the replacement for Bill and Kim, fired in January. I think, as do many in local radio, that it was a mistake to move Martin from middays to mornings...it's a whole different beast. Martin is considered one of the best midday lite-rock hosts in the country and was up for a prestigious Marconi award last year. She'll turn up again somewhere. Folks in the local radio biz think that WASH is cutting costs--i.e., paychecks--so that WASH, which is owned by radio giant Clear Channel, can emulate the success of the WASH-type Clear Channel statio in New York. That station costs very little to run and, I believe, is the top earning station in NYC. Just a money factory.
Sterling, Va.:
Hi Frank. I was wondering why House music and Tech-House genres (Eg Drum & Bass, Progressive House, Trance) are so underrepresented on radio stations in this country?
Europe loves that music. Canada loves that music. What's up with America not loving it?
Frank Ahrens: Because Europe and Canada are second-rate political and cultural powers. Two words: Jerry Lewis.
Okay, now that I've got my xenophobia out of the way...yes, that sort of music is huge in Europe, but here's what's funny: The radio system over there works the same way it does here--heavy rotation of hits. Heere's an example: I was in Europe in April 1996, started in London, when to Amsterdam, Berlin, Prague, Venice and Paris. The same Eurotrance song followed me all over Europe--and instrument, 130bpm club hit. Beaten into submission, I bought the CD single in the HMV record store in Heathrow before I came home.
Rob, Rockville, Md.:
It's interesting that one of the most popular radio stations in the Baltimore and Washington areas rarely gets coverage in the Post. It's a station that can be heard in Maryland, the District, Northern Virginia, and parts of West Virginia, Pennsylvania and Delaware. The station regularly gets national notice as one of the best rock stations in the country (from general press and industry publications and critics). It sponsors concerts at Nissan and Merriweather and the MCI Center. Its DJs are nationally known for their professionalism. Its morning show has produced three CDs, sponsored comedy shows at Merriweather and even prompted a beer named after them. And on and on. It's 98 Rock, WIYY-FM, in Baltimore. And the Post needs to include the station in its coverage because, as noted, it is widely listened to, widely loved and and widely respected throughout the Washington metropolitan area.
Frank Ahrens: Thaks for the posting.
Washington, D.C.:
Mr. Ahrens, I have a rather naive radio question. Can you explain how a song ends up being played on some of the tightly formatted radio stations. Who decides whether a new song fits a particular format? For instance, who decides what new music ends up on a "classic rock" station. Or how does a song end up on a "top 40" station, since it would seem a song wouldn't make it into the top 40 if it isn't played on any top 40 stations?
By the way, to any radio people out there. Please play a greater variety of music!
Frank Ahrens: It's a good question, song selection. It's part art and part science. Station program directors and music directors still partly use their gut: will our listeners like this song? But they no longer have to go on gut alone...they have voluminous research: how did this song do in other markets? Further, they test songs, but inviting listeners to big theaters where they play snippets of songs for them, and they also do focus groups and call-outs, where they call listeners on the phone and test music. Sometimes, stations find themselves held prisoner to their own tight formatics. For instance, Classic Rock 94.7 plays old Steely Dan, but when Steely Dan released a very popular album last year, which was up for and maybe even won a Grammy, Classic Rock 94.7 didn't play any music from it. Why? Because even thought 94.7 is a Classic Rock station, it's not a Classic Rock Artist station, i.e., they won't play new music by old artists. Further, since the new Steely Dan didn't fit any of the other D.C. stations' formatics, it didn't get played. Too bad.
Fairfax, Va.:
In your opinion, which is the most entertaining show on 106.7 WJFK? Stern, O&A, D&M, or the Junkies? Love your work!
Frank Ahrens: Thanks. Everyone knows that I love the Junkies; for my money, the best show on Washington radio.
Washington, D.C.:
Hi Frank,
I hope that you received my first question about interviewing the award-winning journalist Amy Goodman to get her view on the Pacifica crisis. (Afterall, she is the one who has been harassed, assaulted, and now banned by Pacifica.)
My second question is about whether you have tried to listen to Amy Goodman's show, Democracy Now! on WPFW, 89.3FM, Monday through Friday 9-10a.m. They are now playing archive tapes of Amy's show. The stations will not discuss what has happened to Amy. If you call in during the live-call in hour, the host will cut you off before you even get your question out about Amy. I suggest that you listen to Democracy Now! When the announcer says that they are playing a tape of Democracy Now!, I suggest that you call the station at: 202-588-0999 and ask why they are playing tapes of Democracy Now! Also ask why they do not play Democracy Now! live. If you identify yourself as just a listener or member of WPFW, you will experience the manner in which they will treat you. You will not be able to leave a message for a specific person (they will send you to a general voice message box) nor will you be able to speak with anyone at the station about WPFW's censorship of Democracy Now!
It is scary when a radio station refuses to even speak about why it censors a journalist.
I hope that you will respond to this important issue.
Frank Ahrens: Here's the deal: Pacifica has a "dirty laundry" rule which prohibits staffers from talking about internal matters on the air. Now, each station has a right to enforce that as rigidly as it sees fit. Goodman's home station--WBAI in NYC--has been more flexible, allowing some on-air discussion of the Troubles that Pacifica has been experiencing over the past few years. Other stations, principally WPFW in Washington, have been extraordinarily rigid in pulling what they deem violating material off the air. Hence, Goodman and other so-called Pacifica dissidents have been pulled off the air mid-sentence. Several callers have complained about their treatment at the hand of WPFW management when they called to complain. Let's be clear, though: this is not censorship. Censorship is when a government outlaws speech or publications. Pacifica is a private, albeit listener-supported entity, and has the right--as cowardly as it may be sometimes--to broadcast what it wants.
Logan Circle, D.C.:
Am I the only one that notices Gina Crash on WHFS constantly stuffing her face on the air? Send her the same question over e-mail, and she complained that its not her fault she doesn't have time to eat when she's not on the air, was overall just a pain about it. No real question just an observation.
Frank Ahrens: Have you seen the girl? You'd encourage her to eat if you had!
wiredog:
To the person who asked "how a song ends up being played on ... radio stations". Check out salon.com's coverage of this issue. Basically, the labels pay the stations.
Frank Ahrens: Yes, that's another part of the equation. I would argue that it's not as prevalent as Salon.com writer Eric Boehlert states, but it works like this: Especially at hit stations, record labels hire promoters who pitch the new hit records to radio stations. They cannot pay the stations cash directly to play the song, but they skirt it legally by often providing a station with its "promotion budget."
Bethesda, Md.:
What kind of future do you see for the radio business as an increasing number of stations are purchased by the same oligopoly of owners? Will this homogenize the content even further or will it help bring new standards to the radio medium?
Frank Ahrens: I don't think you want to know the answer to this...
Silver Spring, Md.:
Great column about WMAL and the demise of full-service radio. I remember the time when you literally did not miss a thing there because there were live, in-house news anchors 24/7 doing news and weather on the :30 and even :20 and :50 when Harden and Weaver ruled mornings in D.C.
Should colleges and universities start changing their majors to Narrow Communications as opposed to Mass? And when do you think the term "broadcast" be laid to rest in favor of narrow, directed or target cast?
Frank Ahrens: Your points are all rhetorical and well-stated.
Annandale, Va.:
Several years ago, I listened to Lou Brutus and Alan Scott on WHFS in the morning during the work-week. I went on vacation for a week and when I came back Lou was gone! I never heard an explanation. And it seemed like something must have happened suddenly because they didn't seem to know what do with themselves for a while after Lou was gone. (Continuously changing hosts, "guest" listener hosts, etc.)
I've always wondered what happened. Do you know?
Frank Ahrens: Sure. Lou was fired by WHFS, but he was disgruntled, anyway. He has new life, however: I bumped into Lou at XM Satellite radio a couple of weeks ago. He is programming one of the satellite radio's channels. I don't know if I can exactly describe it to you...sounded like a mix between Monty Python and "Golden Throats," but it has potential to be some of the most original radio I've ever had.
Greenbelt, Md.:
I am a former listener of WJFK. After Don Geronimo ousted Liddy, moved D&M into his slot, and parked O&A in the evening drive, there's nothing left. I've never really liked Howard Stern; I've tried, but been repeatedly revolted by O&A; and, as so many others in the DC Metro area have reported, D&M's brand of humor just doesn't 'click' at the office, but is more suited for the post-work unwind.
As it stands, I was really surprised to find how much I missed Liddy's interesting mix of eclectic wisdom and right-wing mouth frothing during lunch, and scoured the dial to attemt to find him elsewhere. Thanks for keeping us updated on his whereabouts and consequently introducing me to WTNT.
When I first started listening to TNT, in the two weeks before Clear Channel and Infinity managed to figure out how to play nice with each other, I listened to the station and quickly became hooked. Phil Hendrie is hilarious (in small doses), and Tom Martino's pit-bull consumer advocism has become my newest favorite radio show. Adding Liddy to the mix quickly bumped TNT onto my car's preprogrammed radio buttons.
However, I'm in a bit of a quandry. I'd mentioned earlier that Hendrie is fun in small doses. When Liddy got the lunch slot, they both cut Martino's show to two hours, and moved him from the drive home to a dead (for me) time slot of 3 to 5 p.m., moving Hendrie from lunctime to the drive home.
Three hours in traffic is a little much to be subjected to Hendrie's rants at himself and his callers, and I miss Martino, now that I've been hooked on him. What can I do?
Help!
Frank Ahrens: I can do nothing, but the folks running WTNT will read this. Thanks for the posting. Assuming you're not a WTNT plant...
Washington, D.C.:
So what's the deal with Juan Williams "leaving" Talk of the Nation? Doesn't becoming a correspondent/commentator seem like a step down? Was he squeezed out? He said on his last day that more stations than ever were carrying the show!
Frank Ahrens: As I wrote, Williams has a past that has him stretching his name brand across many publications. Doing a four-day-a-week radio show is a tough gig and it cuts into the time you have for writing books, etc. Also, NPR says, Williams wanted to get back into reporting and he'll do some longform pieces for the NPR news shows. The book on Williams' tenure there is mixed: NPR says it added shows during his time, but it lost some prominant ones, such as WNYC, and part of that had to do with Williams' style.
Mickleen, Va.:
Hi Frank!
What's the humidity percentage currently in the "Crescent City?"
Any idea when WMAL and WBAL (Baltimore) will resume streaming their audio on the 'net?
WBAL's site says its technical issues. Is it really the copyright and payment-to-talent
situation??
Frank Ahrens: I believe the humidity here is 150 percent. It's not raining; simply walking forward causes your body to squeeze water from the atmosphere.
WMAL and WBAL and all other ABC stations are working on a technical fix to get their streaming back up. Yes, it is a technical issue: they need to figure out a way to broadcast their radio shows without broadcasting the commercials, which they would have to pay extra to do. So it's both.
Frank Ahrens: That's going to do it for our special remote edition from New Orleans, folks. I'm going to try and scare up Lisa Bonet and see if we can't re-enact that chicken scene from "Angel Heart."
Thanks for all the good qustions; see you in two weeks.
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